The Media Odyssey

Marion Ranchet: [00:00:00] I think. It's a time where people start thinking about everyone else's as a, as a competitor. And, uh, I think you have a, uh, a word for that. I will not try to say it. Is it colla?

Evan Shapiro: Collaborigator. Yes, that's exactly right.

Marion Ranchet: That's not for me anyway. So I don't want to try that. I know. That's not English. That's not English.

Marion Ranchet: But don't worry about it. Exactly. You're, uh, you're going to make fun of my, uh, my English today if I do that.
all.

Evan Shapiro: Welcome to the Media Odyssey. That is Marion Ronschett.

Marion Ranchet: And this is Evan Shapiro.

Evan Shapiro: And, uh, this week on our second episode of the Media Odyssey we will be making our predictions for 2025. Uh, we will be making five predictions, uh, this week and five [00:01:00] predictions next week. And each of us will have ten. You ready for this?

Evan Shapiro: I don't know what order you put yours in. I put mine in just kind of a random order of preparedness, actually, to talk about them. Same.

Marion Ranchet: None. No order whatsoever.

Evan Shapiro: All right. So 2024, which we talked about last week, was a big of year, a year of big change in the media universe. And I think we both anticipate a year of great change next year.

Evan Shapiro: So why don't you start with your first prediction? Not number one, not number 10, but your first prediction for 2025.

Marion Ranchet: Okay. It's YouTube. Yeah. So surprising. Surprising. No, but it's been, it's been an insane year, right? We've seen them break the 10 percent on the Nielsen gouge. And so I think that next year that's going to grow, uh, even faster.

Marion Ranchet: Expect that they're going to break the 15%. I'm, I'm bullish on this. Let's see. Uh, but behind this, what [00:02:00] I see, uh, happening is two things. When everyone is running to grow their advertising business, these guys who have a very stable ad business. are actually going to double down on premium. And that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, just, uh, bringing YouTube TV outside of the U S or anything like that, but it's more building more and more premium features.

Marion Ranchet: into YouTube to actually empower, uh, creator led streamers, uh, and YouTube channels to, to make that move between having an ad only business to having an hybrid business. So that's, that's my prediction for next year. And we've started seeing them, uh, building that type of features. I think they're going to go even further.

Marion Ranchet: And so they're going to be a threat to both premium and ad supported, uh, you know, uh, competitors essentially.

Evan Shapiro: Um, the one thing I would say is that I think premium really does have to be seen in the eye of the beholder, the viewer. That's true. And so, depending on how you look [00:03:00] at it, as long as it's on a television screen, um, it is, I think considered by the viewer as a premium content.

Evan Shapiro: That's true. Um, I too am glad you started with your YouTube prediction because I also have my prediction for YouTube for 2025 is that 2025 will be the year of YouTube on tv. Um, it had a big year on TV this year. There's no question about it. It reached ten percent, um, more than any other individual channel on Nielsen's Gauge.

Evan Shapiro: It's also a massive number on the Comscore score that I did. Um, and so I would argue it's probably the largest television channel on the planet. Bigger than Netflix. Bigger than anything else. Um, you know, what's interesting is they just dropped a ton of data about themselves on TV. So this really reinforces your prediction about thinking of themselves as a premium environment.

Evan Shapiro: Um, there are a billion hours of YouTube watched on television every day. There are a billion hours of [00:04:00] YouTube watched on the TV. Every single day. Say it again. I think it's, it's hard to get your head around that because you want to say, Oh no, you mean on YouTube? No. On YouTube, on the TV. Um, so in the U S I think it's over 60 percent of the usage is now on television.

Evan Shapiro: Um, they, uh, you see a tremendous amount in their report about themselves, which is very convenient. YouTube talked about, there are a number of YouTubers. People who make their living from YouTube who now see a sizable share of their revenue coming from TV and not from, uh, from mobile, uh, or for de from desktop.

Evan Shapiro: Um, and so, you know, then you look into their investment in NFL Sunday Ticket, you look at the fact that there are a hundred million plus now YouTube premium subscribers. You look at them as the largest kids channel by far on the face of the earth, which is a massive part of their business. Um, and a big part of their [00:05:00] television usage is, you know, four quadrant watching or two quadrant watching, at least parents and kids watching together.

Evan Shapiro: Um, or parents, uh, nannies and kids, depending on how you look at it. Um, and, and I think, you know, that's only going to continue. Um, you're also seeing Netflix, um, take from YouTube and emulate. YouTube. So you have Jake Paul getting paid 40 million to basically promote Netflix on YouTube and bring 100 million people to watch that concurrently on Netflix.

Evan Shapiro: And then they licensed The Sidemen, uh, the next week, which was a series that started by The Sidemen, the creators on YouTube, that they're licensing in the second season for their platform. So, I think YouTube on television is a huge, it was a big story this year. I think it's going to be, if not the biggest story of next year, then a top three story very easily.

Evan Shapiro: The good news is, Um, that that prediction was for both of us. So we each got through one there very quickly because we agreed on, on perhaps [00:06:00] our top prediction for the year. So now it's back to you, actually, what's your next prediction for the year?

Marion Ranchet: I feel that Netflix should be doing more as the leading streaming service in subscriber number.

Marion Ranchet: I feel that they are cruising. I'm not seeing a lot of innovation, whether that it, you know, it's the content or, you know, the way that the, uh, surface their service. I would say that what is always the most impressive thing to me is the marketing. I mean, it's just insane. Like for the new season of Script Game, they actually partnered with a YouTuber, uh, Enoch Stagg, which is a French YouTuber.

Marion Ranchet: And they did some sort of a happening on the, uh, Champs Élysées, right? Which is the, the, the, the biggest, uh, avenue in, uh, in France. So, My prediction is almost a wish is that I want Netflix to be more innovative next year, and I think that they should let more people in, in the sense, more brands. I want to see more partnership.

Marion Ranchet: I want [00:07:00] them to become. More of a hub, I feel like I'm coming at a point where I could do without it. Right. Don't quote me on this, but, uh, so my prediction for next year is I want to see them, uh, somehow bring, you know, third party services, uh, within that ecosystem and really become, you know, home of television, right.

Marion Ranchet: Um, so, yeah.

Evan Shapiro: It's interesting. Uh, they had, they did an interesting partnership on Squid Games with Duolingo, which I think will wind up being a really good promotional, uh, campaign for them, but I think, um, also really lucrative. I think they're being paid by Duolingo a decent amount of money. Um, it's really, it's really innovative.

Evan Shapiro: Um, it's the, it's the Duolingo Owl doing a, a dance of a, a famous song in squid game outfits. It's really good. And it's getting millions of views online on TikTok and on, and on YouTube. So I do think that's

Marion Ranchet: [00:08:00] marketing,

Evan Shapiro: marketing, well, and then sale and sale. I have to credit them. I give them a lot of shit for how poorly they've run their ad sales efforts since launching it, which they were surprised to hear from their CEO that it was launching.

Evan Shapiro: Um, and, and so, you know, in this case, I think that they found a way to make money off channel to a certain extent, um, because the ad impressions on channel just aren't there yet. They're just not commensurate with what they're selling out in the marketplace. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have heard a great deal that users are frustrated with the lack of innovation, um, from their programming in particular.

Evan Shapiro: Um, and if you look at this past holiday season, they basically stole Hallmark's movie strategy from them. Literally, note for fucking note. And that's fine. That's a great idea. And their, and their other big idea is to take Amazon's sports strategy and employ it on Christmas day. So they're taking the Black Friday thing that Amazon's now done for two years and they're doing it on Christmas day and they're doing a Beyonce concert.

Evan Shapiro: That's fantastic. It's a great idea, but your point from innovation standpoint, [00:09:00] they're acting very much like a broadcast television network, to be blunt. They have wrestling, they have football, golf, um, and it's working. They're the biggest television channel, premium television channel on the face of the earth.

Evan Shapiro: If they want to be in the advertising business and they want to try to, to your point, continue to innovate. I think I agree with you. I think that would be a, is that, do you think it's going to happen? Is that a prediction? You said it's a wish. Do you think they'll do it?

Marion Ranchet: I, well, I think they have so much going on.

Marion Ranchet: I'm not sure it's going to happen next year. I, so I, I want it to happen. I don't know if it's going to happen next year. Sometimes we make predictions

Evan Shapiro: as wishes.

Marion Ranchet: I, I think, yeah, I think next year, uh, for sure they will focus on, on sports, uh, a lot more and it could be that, you know, the rest is kind of, you know, on, on the back burner, uh, but let's see, you know, uh, looking to be surprised.

Evan Shapiro: Uh, so my next prediction, again, not in any order, uh, is, uh, it's, I mean, it's something we know is going to happen, um, but I, I'm going to lean [00:10:00] into it, uh, as a trend. Um, so there's going to be a major, uh, reconfiguration of, uh, the entire entertainment ecosystem next year. And, you know, there are two very, actually three very, uh, uh, obvious case studies that I can offer to demonstrate what's about to happen.

Evan Shapiro: So Comcast spinning out its cable companies, uh, which I call CableTown, uh, Warner Brothers Discovery, or as I call them, Disco Brothers or Disco Bros. Um, spinning out what many in the, in the memes have called shit co, which I'm, I apologize to the people who work there, but that is what it's been called. Um, and then also Paramount being bought, um, by, uh, um, Skydance slash Oracle.

Evan Shapiro: And so those are the three obvious things we know are going to happen next year. I think, To lean even harder into them. I think that's not even maybe even the first or last transaction that's going to happen to Disco brothers. I think they will be sold in various different forms. I think that there's a very good, um, [00:11:00] uh, chance that the, the Peacock, or actually the NBC universal cable channels, they also get purchased by somebody as opposed to simply just spinning out on their own.

Evan Shapiro: I think big tech might be interested in that. I think, uh, Netflix is likely to make an acquisition of some sort next year. They have cash. They really need answers in advertising. And I think there are ways to enhance their advertising business or. Other elements like gaming is something they obviously think is a thing.

Evan Shapiro: I think there are obvious acquisitions to go out and make that can help accelerate their business there. Um, so I think we'll see, uh, much more, uh, uh, other, uh, many more other examples of reconfiguration, um, next year. I also don't think. You know, it's unexpected, um, you know, to see Microsoft now that they're done swallowing Activision, look for things, uh, in the living room to expand into, um, you know, an OEM, uh, and, uh, a television OS, [00:12:00] um, I think, uh, also, uh, equally, um, NVIDIA, um, has all this cash on hand.

Evan Shapiro: Um, I don't know what future plans they have. They're obviously doing incredibly well right now. Their chips are incredibly in demand, but I don't know that that's an endless cycle. And I think look for them to look for ways to get into gaming and or the living room in a different way.

Marion Ranchet: I quite like the idea of, uh, Microsoft, uh, getting into the OS business because, uh, yeah.

Marion Ranchet: What's, what's up with that, right? Well, they are. They are actually,

Evan Shapiro: they are a little bit. Yeah, but not

Marion Ranchet: in the TV one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Not in the TVOS business.

Evan Shapiro: But Xbox is a platform, it's not a lot of people, but there are people who watch TV and streaming services on their Xbox. And so, to a certain extent, I mean, at one point, they were a big use case for streaming television.

Evan Shapiro: And you designed for Xbox kind of right out of the box. Yes. Now that's less so the case. Um, but you can see now that they're gaming, they're, they're, they're so solidly in the top three gaming companies on [00:13:00] earth and they really don't have a major threat. Sony obviously is big and Nintendo is obviously big, but they're, they're not under any threat from those companies.

Evan Shapiro: I think expanding in the living room should I, if I, that was my company and granted they're the second most valuable company in the history of humankind. So they shouldn't necessarily listen to me, but that feels like a next obvious move to me. Your next prediction.

Marion Ranchet: So my next prediction is more hard bundles.

Marion Ranchet: Uh, I think when I look at streaming, they did that to themselves. Let me explain. Everyone is looking at churn. Thinking, oh my God, oh my God. Except for Netflix is around 2%, but everyone else is in between three and, and, and 10 if not more. And that's because the Netflix model was, eh, you can come in, you can cancel any time.

Marion Ranchet: Except that like any business, you need to have some sort of, you know, revenue, uh, [00:14:00] predictability, which they do not have. And they have to spend more and more money. And so I've been seeing, uh, more bundles in Europe. Uh, granted that, you know, the pay TV business here is, is, you know, uh, in a better shape than in the US, but seeing a lot of hard bundles where, uh, I'll give you the example of, uh, Canal which is maybe the French Comcast or, uh, to, to give a comparison or the French Sky, uh, these guys for the past year and a half, they've had Apple TV Plus hard bundled, right?

Marion Ranchet: So you sign up to Canal and you have Apple TV Plus, boom, there. So for Apple. Makes a lot of sense. It's, you know, almost 10 million subs from day one versus having to work hard to get those new subs plus a lot of those packages are, you know, 12 to 24 months long, et cetera. And, you know, actually a lot of people are staying, you know, they, they, they don't share [00:15:00] true numbers, but they're saying they have a lot of loyal, loyal subs.

Marion Ranchet: I'll put in the show notes, if I can find some data on that in September, they've added Spam and plus. In

Evan Shapiro: December,

Marion Ranchet: Paramount Plus

Evan Shapiro: is

Marion Ranchet: actually now hard bundled as well in KanalPlus. In December, if you're, you know, a KanalPlus subscriber, you're getting 30 percent off Apple music, right? So a lot of those things to make sure that you're building contents around broadband, you know, PTV packages, mobile, you name it, right.

Marion Ranchet: Things that are must have for you. And then the content comes on top. So I'm expecting a lot more of those deals, uh, for, for most of the streamers. And I would say, especially in Europe, because, you know, pay TV is still, you know, uh, quite strong.

Evan Shapiro: And, and in Europe, a lot of these companies are also, uh, telecoms, yes?

Evan Shapiro: Yeah. So that is another, that's a nice hardwired bundle component. A hundred percent, [00:16:00] yeah. If you can provide mobile, that's Charter and Comcast in the U. S., their fastest, their only growing segments are their mobile segments. Yeah. Broadband is flat or down and video is obviously cake, uh, cratering. Um, so yeah, I think providing bundles around lifestyles and a suite of services that includes utility in particular is going to continue to be a trend.

Evan Shapiro: But I think it's a, I think it's a great prediction. I wish I, I predicted something around TV, not dissimilarly, but not exactly that. I wish I had chosen yours instead, because now you're going to sound smarter than me. Mine is a colliding of, um, formats. So SVOD, SVOD with ads, AVOD, FAST, HeyTV, all TVOD to a certain extent, although that'll still be its own business, um, will all blend into much smoother, uh, continuums, bundles.

Evan Shapiro: To your point, um, that I think FAST as its own bespoke ecosystem, I, I, I think it will continue to exist. [00:17:00] Um, but for Roku, it's really a free area, uh, to sell advertising inside their larger operating system. Um, I think that increasingly will become true for, for Samsung, but I think for the pay TV ecosystems, they're going to start to put a lot of free video on the front end that you don't have to be a subscriber, but we still have all your subscriber info.

Evan Shapiro: So we can now market to you. It's part of our first party data stack. Um, I, I think you'll see then that blended much more into the SVOD business and see those bundles continue to go out. Bundling those together with like Amazon prime. And Apple Music and Comcast Mobile or Charter Mobile, those are going to be, I think, the strongest bundles out there.

Evan Shapiro: So I think your prediction is 100 percent accurate. I think mine is the video product is going to start to realize that it's all one fucking product. Stop treating it like silos. The consumer wants one continuum between them all. They would prefer to have one bill to pay. You will lower churn. If [00:18:00] you take all the services you're selling right now and put them all on one bill for them.

Evan Shapiro: You don't have to even change the price. Churn will go down a little bit. If you can give them economies of scale because you're getting guaranteed subscribers, to your point. Um, that will lower churn all that much more. And I think even the mighty Netflix are, is going to have to start looking. They're bundling now.

Evan Shapiro: They're bundling with Max and, and Verizon, I think in the United States, they're in the Comcast bundle, um, with, uh, other services as well. So I think I, you're right. And then I'm yes. And then your prediction.

Marion Ranchet: A hundred percent. I think you're speaking to the, who's, who's going to be that super aggregator, right?

Marion Ranchet: Right. And I've written at length about this and I think there's a lot of, uh, you know, uh, prospect that could be big tech, uh, broadcasters want to be that too, pay TV want to be that too, everyone. Yeah.

Evan Shapiro: Amazon and YouTube both have a channel's business to sell other people's premium services, and those are part of a larger strategy, there's no question.

Evan Shapiro: They also both have operating systems as [00:19:00] well.

Marion Ranchet: Okay, so my prediction number four, you actually mentioned it, there was more free streaming on pay TV, so I'll go quick on this one, but again, Um, that's what we've seen in the US right at a time where, you know, uh, people have many more options to watch video content.

Marion Ranchet: What can you offer, uh, on top to keep those subs? And I think a lot of that, you know, retention tactics have been done, uh, in, in Europe. And I think the beauty of bringing free streaming on pay TV is that it's gonna. Accelerate, uh, the fact that T T V is going to become addressable. So, you know, I'm having conversation right now where I see, uh, telecom operators, you know, pay TV, uh, platforms, et cetera, keen to have free streaming, but technically right now they can't, right.

Marion Ranchet: I mean, if you want to be, uh, serving ads, it's going to, it has to be baked in, et cetera, it's very much, you know, the, the, the traditional way of doing things. [00:20:00] Free streaming on pay TV, you know, accelerates, uh, that move, uh, of, uh, of TV into, you know, the digital world. So, uh, even just for that, I think that's a, that's a, that's a fantastic, uh, A fantastic next step for free streaming and pay TV together.

Evan Shapiro: Uh, I agree. And I think, um, you know, you've identified ways when I've talked to, uh, direct TV on camera, so I'm not breaking any confidences here. Um, about their, their, their free streaming product, they, they believe that they're going to actually enhance the, the ARPU of both consumers, the, the paid subscriber and the free advertising supported subscriber.

Evan Shapiro: Because of the environment and because of the combination of the two, it's longer length of stay. So I think that's absolutely true. I, I, uh, I'm going to take it a step further, which is, I think you're going to see, uh, this is another prediction. A maturation of the connected television world, um, and an important one.

Evan Shapiro: One that will actually [00:21:00] help it. And it's in balance from a spend standpoint with pure digital. So there, the, the, the amount of television advertising, the amount of advertising connected television gets is not commensurate with the amount of viewership it's getting. And that's because the measurement is not great.

Evan Shapiro: The audiences are very fragmented. And the, and the buy in is just awkward when compared to pure play digital media like Google and Meta and Amazon. Um, one of the key components of, um, the, that triumvirate is retail media specifically on Amazon. Um, so, uh, the more that connected television can emulate those big three.

Evan Shapiro: The better off it's going to wind up doing. I think retail media moving into television in the next year is one of those big indications that the money is going to begin to catch up because now you're getting on Google and Meta and, and Amazon, you're getting a mix of traditional media, digital media, and retail media, a budget that television doesn't [00:22:00] get any of right now, really.

Evan Shapiro: By comparison, um, in the US this year, um, the retail media, uh, uh, budget for the, uh, spend, um, is around $54 billion of it. $54 billion, 75% of that goes to Amazon. Um, worldwide retail media was a hundred, I think $140 billion. Um, uh, uh, in 2024, that's up 28%. The fastest growing segment of television, which is sight, sound, motion.

Evan Shapiro: Is connected television. When you marry those two trends together, I think you're going to see a tremendous move forward in this arena, especially now that Amazon is selling television advertising in a big way. Um, and frankly, because you have people like Trey desk. Um, and, uh, uh, Google and other companies investing heavily.

Evan Shapiro: Roku has put a tremendous amount of, uh, effort into their shoppable effort, uh, um, with partners like Shopify and [00:23:00] other, uh, and other folks. And so I think you're going to see a heavy investment start in 2025 in retail media on connected television. And I think you're going to see that as a start of a major growth to a 9 billion a year industry just in the U S.

Evan Shapiro: Um, by the end of this decade. So, uh, that is my, uh, fourth prediction. What is your fifth prediction for 2025, but not your last prediction for 2025?

Marion Ranchet: The last one is, uh, well, it's concerning European broadcasters. Um, what I've seen again, this past year, a lot of innovation, uh, a lot of partnerships and that I love, right?

Marion Ranchet: So, and actually partnerships amongst themselves, which is already. Kudos, because in a given market, uh, usually broadcasters, uh, are very much fighting for, you know, uh, attention. Um, and so may that be in Germany where you see the two biggest commercial broadcasters doing an ad tech [00:24:00] partnership. Uh, there's even, you know, rumors about how they could potentially collaborate on.

Marion Ranchet: Uh, programming, et cetera. Um, and so for this year, uh, for 2025, I'm, I'm hoping again, and I think I will be seeing a lot of partnerships between these guys, but also with streamers. Uh, co production again, you know, uh, someone like Netflix as the scale, the marketing firepower to make something happen, the local broadcast does have that, you know, connection to the local audiences, you know, cultural moments, et cetera, so I think.

Marion Ranchet: It's a time where people start thinking about everyone else's as a, as a competitor. And, uh, I think you have a, uh, a word for that. I will not try to say it. Is it colla

Evan Shapiro: Collaborigator. Yes, that's exactly right.

Marion Ranchet: That's not for me anyway. So I don't want to try that. That's not English. That's not English.

Marion Ranchet: Don't worry about it. Exactly. You're, uh, you're going to make fun of [00:25:00] my, uh, my English today if I do that. Not at

all.

Marion Ranchet: But so, partnership on ad tech, on, uh, production, on distribution, and again, amongst broadcasters, but also, you know, with, with streamers. And I will leave you with one example that happened, uh, this month.

Marion Ranchet: Uh, again, on the French market, uh, when I was telling you in episode one that this was the year of France, um, it's actually Netflix and TF1 producing a daily soap show, right? So in Q2 next year, uh, for, you know, 90 episodes or so, Netflix is going to have the first window. Then five days later, it's going to be on TF1.

Marion Ranchet: And so they're putting, you know, what the best of the tools, you know, uh, as to offer and, and putting this show out there. Right.

Evan Shapiro: Yeah. I, I, I'm going to yes. And this is be the second of the first five where we basically have a very similar, if not identical prediction. Um, I, but I would, I want to say [00:26:00] very clearly, we did not compare notes.

Evan Shapiro: Yeah, exactly. That's insane. For this year. Um, but this is something that I have talked about a lot, which is. So I'm going to zoom back out and then come back to your prediction. So Amazon and Netflix are the only two commissioners of series that are at pace prior to the strike, the only two, everybody else is way down.

Evan Shapiro: Um, and to be honest with you, even for Amazon and Netflix, they're moving a lot of money out of scripted and entertainment and into sports. And so. What I predicted earlier this year was that you were going to see a lot more co productions with even the big streamers, but especially Amazon and Netflix for a couple of different reasons.

Evan Shapiro: It's really expensive to produce content locally all over the world, and I think Netflix can't necessarily afford to do that anymore, and I don't think Amazon really ever did that, that much. Um, and so, but they know that they need to be local, um, but they're not going to have necessarily the same, um, the same [00:27:00] resources to spend on entertainment and scripted programming.

Evan Shapiro: The second part of that is they recognize the, the, the prominence and no changing to the prominence of the, uh, entertainment industry. Um, native broadcaster there, if they've handled their business correctly, they have an audience on all platforms and of all ages, granted, they're not, they don't have the same advantage as all the streamers, but if Netflix is not going to compete directly with them, they can collaborate with them in a completely different way.

Evan Shapiro: So. I agree. I think you're gonna see a tremendous amount more co production. I also agree that you'll see a lot more collaboration between Big Tech and the broadcasters because I think they realize how much they need each other, to be blunt, in order to survive in the market. There's no way that YouTube can thrive in these markets all around the world if they don't have a high quality local content.

Evan Shapiro: Um, and quality is now super important to them because of things we discussed earlier, which is their [00:28:00] move to the television, their move into premium. And so they want more professionals to upload their stuff to their platform, including the public service broadcasters. Um, in order to do that, they're going to have to be more collaborative.

Evan Shapiro: Uh, then traditionally they have been, and I think that's true for Amazon and for Apple and everyone else as well. So, I agree. Um, and let's, what a great note to end the first predictions episode is that we're in complete agreement. And not only did we not compare notes, but we came at it from different points of view.

Evan Shapiro: You from the European point of view and me from the North American point of view. And we met in the middle, um, despite that.

Marion Ranchet: So on to next week's podcast, uh, where we're going to have an additional five prediction, uh, each same thing, no order. No discussion, uh, we promise we will

Evan Shapiro: have the same outfit.

Marion Ranchet: Yeah, sorry guys for those people

Evan Shapiro: watching.

Evan Shapiro: Yes. We will be wearing the same t shirt. We're actually [00:29:00] both wearing a t shirt.

Marion Ranchet: Absolutely.

Evan Shapiro: Thank you very much for listening. Uh, subscribe, share this with folks. Uh, your newsletter, Marianne is called what?

Marion Ranchet: Streaming made easy. How about yours even?

Evan Shapiro: Uh, mine is called media war and peace. It is also on sub stack like yours until next week.

Evan Shapiro: Thanks for listening.

Marion Ranchet: Thanks.